Photograph by Katherine Bish
"The (restaurant) times, they are a-changin’.” Two years ago, chef Greg Maggi was an integral part of the runaway hit Robust, the winecentric juggernaut that this magazine crowned 2008’s “Restaurant of the Year.” Yet today there are still people who don’t think of Robust as a restaurant. In May, Maggi was part of a triumvirate that opened Maplewood’s Saint Louis Cellars Food & Wine, another eating “place” that doesn’t consider itself a restaurant. What’s going on here? If anybody knows, SLM figured it would be Greg Maggi.
So is there some kind of weird restaurant movement going on in St. Louis? I’ve been lucky to be part of several great projects—truly different concepts—in the last couple of years.
How'd you get started here? In 1995, Pat Hanon wanted to reconfigure Patrick’s into something like Wolfgang Puck was doing, and I had worked with Puck in California. Problem was, we didn’t change the name. We reopened with fancy food and foie gras, and people came back in looking for shrimp cocktail and prime rib. Lesson learned. [Smiles.] We did better with the name “Pujols 5.”
Then did you go to Neiman Marcus? No. Pat Hanon said I should talk to a guy named Bill Cardwell and I ended up working at Cardwell’s at the Plaza with Bill and his chef Dave Owens. Bill’s kitchen—his organization and attention to detail—is incredible and similar to what I was used to.
Then did you go to Neiman Marcus? Yes, it was Cardwell who told me that [Neiman manager] John Deutschmann was looking to change the image of the Zodiac Room. I went in, thought I was in a retirement home, and passed on the opportunity. Then I got a call from their head of food service in Dallas, Kevin Garmin, who sold me on what he was planning corporately and I came on board. When I left, there was much more diversity and not as many wheelchairs and walkers, so I think I did something right.
You became famous for your popovers at Neiman Marcus. Will we see them again? They were a Neiman thing. It was odd; I had total menu flexibility there…with the exception of the popovers, the chicken salad, and the orange soufflé, recipes that were created for Stanley Marcus back in the ’50s and are obviously still holding up well today. That being said, I’ve made enough. I’ll never make another popover again.
Tell me about Pujols 5. Much bigger, 450 seats. My challenge was to take typical bar fare and improve it, make it all from scratch, and keep a staff of 30 cooks efficient—and I think we did that. But it is hard for an independent to keep a 450 seats running…especially on a cold Tuesday in February.
How did Robust get started? I had known [owner] Stanley Browne for years. He conceived Robust as a coffee-and-wine shop with very little food. I asked him, “Why send these people off somewhere else for dinner?”
And it’s been gangbusters at dinner ever since. We did take some heat for the portion sizes. But hey, the proteins are in 4- to 5-ounce sizes, precisely the amounts we all should be eating. I offered no apology that we didn’t have a 32-ounce porterhouse.
Why did you leave? Robust was Stanley and Arlene’s baby. Matt and Jennifer [Williams], other long-term friends of mine, presented an even more intriguing opportunity.
So what are your thoughts on “chef-owned” restaurants? The business is so risky I tell young chefs they need to develop a style before they jump into ownership. Learn from established chefs, watch mistakes instead of make them, and don’t work for anyone more than two years. It takes knowledge as well as ability to open a restaurant successfully.
Did you all have any inspiration from any other sources—local or otherwise? Jennifer called me one day from Winslow’s Home and said, “You gotta come see this place.” Wow. I didn’t know whether to grab a sandwich or a length of hose, but I liked the feel of the place. So yes, we did get some inspiration there. We liked the fact that it wasn’t “one thing.”
So why and how is Saint Louis Cellars Food & Wine so different? First, it’s not a true restaurant; however, we will have everything from box lunches to gift baskets, cooking classes, corporate catering, grab-and-go lunches, some seating if you don’t want to leave, some “three-quarters prepared” items for dinner that get finished at home, and an unusual take on wine dinners.
So it’s a food-focused nonrestaurant. There are maybe 15 components to what it’s going to be. What will become dominant, we don’t yet know. We can do more this, or less that, or cancel a program altogether.
What aspect do you think will dominate? I am encouraged that Saint Louis Cellars has already done a lot of private events but never once advertised the fact.
With the economy, are companies still doing box lunches? Until we did some research, we didn’t realize the size of that market. And between the three of us, we know a lot of the corporate community. We just have to do them better and package them better.
Will the design be different as well? We’re trying to make it look as residential as possible, 100 percent nonintimidating. The lighting will be warm like someone’s home, with dimmers and spotlights highlighting certain areas. We’re into the mood as well as the food.
Yes, but don’t you need focus when opening a restaurant? We’re focused on flexibility. It’s customers who ultimately determine what’s on the menu and what you will become.
You mentioned “unusual wine dinners.” A wine dinner’s a wine dinner to me. “One-table restaurants” are hot on both coasts. We have a beautiful, gracious table designed for 12 that we reserve a few nights a week. A sommelier will handle the wine, and I’ll be cooking the dinner—a fixed six- to seven-courser that will change every few months. If early reservations are any indication, it should be huge.
Jennifer Williams [owner of Saint Louis Closet Company and Saint Louis Cellars] is a brilliant marketer. How does she plan to market this? I know Facebook, LinkedIn and Twitter are all emerging marketing tools she plans to use. We’re also going to do a blog, where each week we’ll post a recipe, post a wine that goes with the recipe, plus an embedded video of me preparing the recipe, showing tips and cooking technique along the way. A nice bonus is that, after a year of doing this, we have a cookbook.
What do you do in your spare time? My son and I are learning to become fly fishermen.
So…you got any good trout recipes? You wanna know the best trout recipe? Trout, butter, salt, and fresh cracked pepper.
Wouldn’t your restaurant customers feel gypped if you served them that exact recipe? Isn’t that the goal of a chef? To have customers merely say, "Man, that’s good"? My goal is not to have 37 flavors competing against one another. I try to buy great, great food and then hope I don’t mess up its simplicity.
How much does a fish’s flavor suffer traveling across the country? I think we get really good fish shipped to Missouri. Is there a taste difference? Yes. Is it huge? Not really.
Are there any favorite special-occasion restaurants—or even dives—that you like? I went to an early dinner at Niche one night, then went to a concert, had a few drinks, it was getting late, and I thought, “Ya know, a greasy burger sure sounds good,” so I stopped at O’Connell’s on the way home. Did I answer the question?
Are there any local places that just do it right all the time? The places that do have chefs who get it and don’t overdo their food. Places like Cardwell’s, Harvest, Niche, Annie Gunn’s—those guys are all good technicians. And all this talk about chains…
You wanna talk about chains? I hate when chefs bash the chains. They fill a market void. If the Cheesecake Factory sucked, they’d go out of business. They don’t suck. I went to Fleming’s recently and had the best filet I’d had in a long time—and the whole table agreed. I don’t want to see the independents go under either, but give a guy credit if they are doing something well. It’s all about standards.
Think you’ll miss the daily routine of a traditional restaurant? People think I’ll be out of the limelight, but I think it will be just the opposite. Jen will probably make me the most popular and visible chef in the Midwest.
What’s your favorite customer story? I was asked to bury a car key—a Porsche key—in a cake for a young woman’s birthday. I went outside and the Porsche was sitting right there with a big ribbon on it…and I had the key. Hmmm. Should I or shouldn’t I? One quick spin? Then I thought how funny it would be to punk the father and have the daughter not find a key in the cake, move the car, and have someone casually tell the guy, "Yeah, the pastry guy quit today. Nobody’s seen him."
Picky customers often drive chefs crazy…wanna weigh in? In the middle of a busy night, a server gave me a folded-up piece of paper from a customer showing what she could not eat—and the list was long. The request was, “What can you cook for her?” You know, I’ll accommodate anyone, but my point is that anybody with food issues should read the menu and tell the chef how to alter a dish. They already know what they can and can’t have. Or call before service when we have time to talk about it.
Did you ever go to culinary school? I went to the California Culinary Academy…but not until I was in my thirties, which was good. I saw a lot of younger chefs who were not getting what they should out of it. I went the other way and decided to milk these chefs for every ounce of knowledge that they had.
