Derek Schulze, the entrepreneur behind weed-themed restaurant Fried, plans multiple food concepts in Downtown West

Late last year, entrepreneur Derek Schulze, co-owner of Red Oak Biscuits, announced four new food concepts, all located along Washington Avenue west of Tucker. Recently opened Fried is a clever, cannabis-themed, fast-casual joint that plays off several connotations of the word. A delusion of grandeur, maybe? Or is Schulze simply capitalizing on a smoking hot trend?

Where did you get your entrepreneurial spirit? I always had a knack for business. I grew up on a family farm, where business, food, and life were inseparable. Our farm in Warrenton has been in the family for 200 years.

How did you get your start in the business? It all started with cookie dough. Since my dad was a farmer and my mom worked, I was at home for a time every afternoon, I tried my hand at making it. My goal was to make it in super small batches, enough to eat before they got back. I got good at it and had the stomach pains to prove it. Ever since then, I was interested in cooking.

Growing up on a farm, there had to be a lot of good food around. Which is why I was amazed at how often my older sister would cook me Kraft Macaroni and Cheese.

What do you like about the restaurant business? It’s satisfying. You’re creating jobs, art, and then get to witness the customer’s reaction process and it’s transparent. You can tell if they like it or if they don’t. People aren’t good actors around food. It’s too primal.

Did you go to culinary school? I started cooking in college but never got a degree. My path meandered from political science to economics to philosophy, then religious studies. I became interested in Eastern thought, so much that I became a Hindu monk—to my parents’ dismay.

So you lived in a monastery? Yes, I just wanted to experience it, both from an academic and functional perspective. That’s where I got a lot of big kitchen experience. Every Sunday, our monastery in Chicago cooked a celebratory Hindu feast featuring Northern Indian food for 1,000 people.

How did you support yourself during this time? The monastery was supporting me. We had food, a place to live, and clothing. Beyond that, other than happiness and self-fulfillment, what else do you need in life?

Yet you didn’t stay. I was transferred to another monastery, in Mendocino, California, that was part organic farm and part raw-based dairy cooperative. There were only 10 of us and we supported ourselves by selling raw milk and produce. And it was ironic because Mendocino County was known for the pot that was grown there and here I am, in a monastery, the only time in my life since I was 15 that I was not smoking weed.

What did you learn there? Beyond the agriculture, I learned how to manage people. People say managing people in restaurants is hard, try living with them at the same time.

How long did you live as a monk? For two years and two days. There was value in the rigidity and the opportunity to focus on higher things, but I realized that group life was too challenging for an entrepreneurial person. I liked collaborating, but I also liked being independent. I re-enrolled in school in Chicago and began day trading cryptocurrency and hit the market at the right time.

Then what? A few of us then opened Chicagrow House, which was living culinary expedition. We were growing food hydroponically, and planned to do pop-up meals every week, in a gallery space, showcasing what we were growing. It would have worked had I not done such a poor job at negotiating the lease. So with my tail between my legs I came to St. Louis, which I’d been told countless times was the land of opportunity. That there was so much innovation here. This was in October 2016.

How did you get a foothold here? I moved into the Majestic Stove Lofts, at 20th and Washington, and completely fell in love with the area. I did a semester at SLU in entrepreneurship and started a business based on a concept that we built and tested in school called Red Oak Eats & Treats. I quit SLU to go run it. One thing that I learned along the way was the art of the pivot. You see what’s working, what’s not working, and you remain detached enough to go in another direction to make it work, adjusting the business—based on consumer feedback, numbers, and metrics—until you find the sweet spot.

Which is how Red Oak Eats & Treats became Red Oak Biscuits. Red Oak Biscuits was the consumer’s idea. We had a typical café-style restaurant, but people couldn’t get enough of our biscuits. So we added a biscuit special one weekend—eight different kinds of biscuits—just to see what would happen. We were coming up on Yelp and Google searches for “best biscuits in St. Louis.” The internet had defined us as a biscuit restaurant before we ever became one. We thought about changing the name to Biscuit Culture, but the name Red Oak had developed a following, so there it was. After the switchover, we either had to expand the kitchen or move, so we moved to the Gravois Park part of Cherokee.

What makes the biscuits so good? There are two kinds of biscuits: rolled and drop. Drop biscuits allow for more liquid and stay moister during baking. Our secret is using high-quality ingredients, add in a little sweetness, and baking several times throughout the day. We essentially shallow-fry them, which produces a fluffy interior and really crunchy exterior. Biscuits seem simple but are really hard to perfect. People literally beat on the windows when we have to close early with looks on their faces like, “We gotta have one, now.“

Is it your recipe or one handed down by somebody’s grandmother? We had a good recipe and added butter, then a little more buttermilk. In baking, subtle additions make for huge differences. The final recipe wasn’t far from where we started, but we continued to tweak it, again based on consumer acceptance.

Is there a bestselling biscuit? St. Louisans love to support St. Louis food. Our Lit Biscuit has pulled chicken, buffalo sauce, ranch, Red Hot Riplets, and cheddar cheese. I guess we could put Provel cheese on it and go for the daily double, but it’s really good with cheddar.

Red Oak has applied for a liquor license? Biscuits and cocktails seems odd. But biscuits and brunch cocktails is a no brainer. Brunch and liquor are best friends, and at Red Oak, every day is Sunday. We get a lot of phone calls asking if we have bloodies and mimosas, and then it’s click.

St. Louis is a huge brunch town. I compare brunch to a religion, except that religions are becoming less popular. Brunch is taking their spot. I won’t say that the only value of religion is community, but it’s one of them, along with ritual. So meeting for a fast-casual or café-type Sunday morning brunch fits right in. Workers and guests mingle in the same communal space. There’s no separation.

What’s the story with Fried? It’s a momentous time in regards to cannabis. That prohibition is coming to an end. Just like after the prohibition on alcohol was lifted, people are celebrating. Just like then, I think people will be in celebration mode for five to 10 years.

So Fried incorporates several connotations of the word? It’s a cannabis-themed restaurant that revolves around what a dispensary-themed restaurant would look and feel like. You select your deep-fried nugget, add a sauce—which we named after CBD strains—and then choose how you want to consume it. Maybe you want to pack it into a bowl with mac and cheese or French fries or roll it up into a burrito.

It’s a timely idea. Fried will produce its own apparel and products and become part of the cannabis empire in different ways, starting with the restaurant and a Fried dispensary, where we’ll sell everything from branded rolling papers and one-hitters to frozen nuggets, dry rubs, sauces, and CBD-oil flavored chips. There’s something to be said about an all-encompassing brand. When people think of cool, sleek technology, they think Apple. In the same way, I want a marijuana brand like that. When people talk about weed, I want them to envision our logo and think Fried.

Besides in house, where would you sell them? In select outlets and grocery stores. Try to zero in on the people who are already partaking.

So why base Fried restaurant on fried food? Doesn’t that demo prefer healthier options? When I get the munchies, I want some potato chips or a biscuit, some really good nuggets or something sweet. Even though we’re immersed in quinoa and kale, I feel people aren’t so extreme any more, diets included. We all need a chance to cheat and to forget about life. It’s in those moments—no matter if they’re sober, drunk, or high—when people come into contact with themselves and the fear of health repercussions dissipates. And in those moments, the needle drifts back to moderation.

What percentage of Fried’s business will be take-out and delivery? Two-thirds is my guess. We hope to have our own delivery team and not rely exclusively on third-party companies. My goal is to have enough restaurants in one area that self-delivery makes the most sense or partner with other nearby independents so delivery is more viable. Making food accessible and approachable helps everybody.

Talk about Homestead, which was originally slated to open in May. I helped develop a space on Washington next to a fitness center, so my first thought was to open a restaurant serving healthy fare—like salads, grain bowls, egg dishes, smoothies, and juices—called Homestead. But the space could also work for Red Oak 1.2., which would be less risky and more scalable. Unfortunately, healthy restaurants don’t scale that easy. They’re great but not that easy of a sell. So Homestead, in that location, may or may not happen.

Is Beef Bar still happening? That one is in limbo for the time being, but I’m hoping it will get back on track soon. Beef Bar is a build-your-own burger joint and bar with a 300-seat event space above it, another option that we’re calling The Skylight.

What’s the story with your event spaces? Our company Element Events handles the majority of the catering events for both The Woodland and The Pearl spaces, both of them over 16,000 square feet. We partnered with Crafted Events, which comes up with brilliant, out-of-the-box ideas. Part of our mission is to create a heavily defined sensory experience in an area of town that gives a different perspective on what St. Louis is and represents.

You really like Downtown West. I think Washington Avenue in Downtown West is at a tipping point. Places like The Last Hotel, City Museum, the new Fields Foods, and the concepts I’m putting together are magnetic enough to make it resonate and become a viable connector between downtown and the Central West End. There’s so much potential on Wash. Ave. between Tucker and 18^th Street, so many opportunities. All the loft buildings are finished now. The new owners of City Museum have plans to increase its presence. It’s defining itself as an artistic neighborhood that breaks down the fourth wall way better than anywhere else in America, which is just how Bob Cassilly saw it, I think. To me, it’s one of the most unique neighborhoods in the United States.

So what’s next? Maybe another Red Oak later this summer.

How do you decide what to do next? Sometimes I start a conversation by telling social media and the press something, then gauge the positive feedback. Campaigns of all sorts are run that way: You put the idea out there and count the comments and likes. You can measure public demand before you fully commit to something. Based on that, the public is more excited about seeing Red Oak Biscuits back on Washington than seeing a completely new concept.

Do you have a macro-vision? I’m a developer and restaurateur who’s trying to create symbiotic ecosystems where groups of businesses can all help one another, and I’m constantly looking to partner with people who think the same way. On a bigger level, there’s net neutral—giving as much as you take from the grid, but for St. Louis, I want to spin that and create net positive systems that give more than they take, mixed-use buildings with restaurants and services and crazy attractions, both solar-powered and wind-powered. I want to develop hydroponic agro-hoods that produce food in and on top of buildings.

Besides some net positivity, what do we need in St. Louis that we don’t have? There are so many great things going on here, but we need to come together and collaborate to produce a larger vision for the city. It may not happen with bureaucracy, with our politics—that takes forever—but it can happen on the ground, in the business sector, right now.

So collaboration is the answer? Part of the answer. In the past, businesses kept to themselves. That age of business is over. We’ve entered an age of social entrepreneurship and social ventures, where companies like Thom’s make people feel good, they’ve incentivized good. I’m not against hiring people with a criminal record, because I know it has a positive impact. There’s value in creating jobs for people who can’t find jobs, for those who can’t catch a break.