Mark Lucas of Fozzie’s opens Humble Pie in Ladue

Five years ago, Mark Lucas of Fozzie’s Sandwich Emporium made Food & Wine’s list of “Sandwich Chefs to Know.” Two years later, the magazine proclaimed Fozzie’s one of the “Best Sandwich Shops in the U.S.” In April, the 44-year-old Lucas opens Humble Pie, a pizza-and-salad joint in the former Red-L space in Ladue, that has no sandwiches on the menu.

What was your first memory of the food biz? When I was young, my mom had a home-based catering business in Columbus, Indiana. Her partner was an Englishwoman who, I’m pretty sure, put booze in everything she made. Let’s just say her rum balls had quite an effect on me.

One of Fozzies’ hallmarks is the raised garden beds. What spurred that interest? In 1992, I worked on a landscape crew during the day and at a European bistro at night. The owner put me in charge of our half-acre working garden, where I also gave tours to customers. That’s how it all started.

Did you ever consider a career outside of restaurants? I was ready to go to Purdue to study landscape architecture, but the bistro owner convinced me I should go to culinary school [Johnson & Wales], which I did. She was the catalyst.

You’ve had a few notable stops. One of the first was Mirabelle in Beaver Creek [Colorado], where I met Mike Johnson, whom I ended up working for in St. Louis at his first restaurant, Café Mira. Then I moved to Europe and ended up at Barbizon, a two-star Michelin restaurant outside Brussels.

What was your favorite restaurant job? I came back from Eurpose to work at a spa resort in the mountains outside of Nederland, near Boulder. It was only open three days a week for seven months of the year. I was on salary with housing and a ski pass. The owner even bought us a Winnebago and a hot tub up in the mountains, just so we had somewhere to hang out when we weren’t working.

Eventually you moved back to St. Louis. About 2001, I worked under Tanaka Tetsushi, rolling sushi at Miso on Meramec, when the place was gangbusters. I remember the night when a 90-piece sushi order got taken to the wrong table—three platters worth—and when a server admitted they “didn’t mean to order half this stuff.” I had to like restrain Tanaka. He wanted to kick somebody. Sushi’s not on-the-fly—some of those orders took half an hour to make.

You worked at a lot of local places. I’ll name a few, and you give me a quick impression.

Miso: So far out of my norm that it couldn’t help but be a fantastic experience.

Café Mira: A very talented, very young group of chefs that felt we brought something new to town. Both Mira and Harvest were at the forefront of a new style of cuisine for St. Louis.

Scorcho: Humbling. I kind of took my eye off that one. One day, the bartender told me we were out of Patron, but last I checked we had six bottles, so I thought, ‘Great, we’re selling a lot of Patron.’ I went to the computer and saw we’d sold one—one Patron drink, not one bottle. Scorcho was a turning point for me. I had done better; I knew I could do better. So I sold it, and my fiancé and I opened Fozzie’s, named after her cat.

What was the impetus to open Fozzie’s? There had never been a quality-focused sandwich place in that neighborhood, plus it was right off Highway 40.

Can you describe the secret behind Fozzie’s BABLT? For the Big Ass BLT, we use thick-cut bacon and cook it on a flat top, rather that deep-fry it. It’s well-made and properly proportioned. The basil mayo takes it over the top.

Why is Fozzie’s black bean burger so good? The simplicity. We take roasted red peppers, caramelized onions, garlic, and black beans, purée them, bind that with eggs and a little panko, then cook the patty on a flat top. We use more of the same veggies as an underlayment, which escalates those flavors.

You’ve earned quite a few accolades, including two call-outs from Food & Wine magazine. Creating any kind of buzz anytime is great, but awards can be a motivator; they can help restore a sense of pride when the staff gets complacent. I remind them that we got all these accolades because we’re better than that and people expect better.

Any plans to expand the Big Bend location? We’re negotiating to extend the dining area to the south and expand the kitchen out the other way, so we can have more options. We’ll also reconfigure the garden, so there’s seating inside it.

Besides having more seats, how is the Des Peres store different than the flagship? When we did the Taste of Des Peres, we were the only non-chain restaurant there, so it took a while for us to get embraced for doing things differently than say, [Saint Louis] Bread Co. We were getting Yelped negatively for being different—but that was our intention.

So you’re not a fan of Yelp? On one hand, a good Yelp number will drive traffic, but I wish reviewers understood the consequences of it going the other way. Getting a two- or three-star review from someone who decided against patronizing my business hurts my business. It’s a shame that Yelp corporate does not take issue with that.

What effect has the Fozzie’s app had on business? Phone orders have decreased, which is great because we were staffing people just to answer phones. The net result is fewer order-takers and more order-makers. The third party handles the credit card transactions, too, so if there’s a problem, it’s not our problem.

How important is delivery at a place like Fozzies? Delivery is a third of our business and increasing, so very important.

Is interest in gluten-free items increasing or decreasing? Increasing. A local company called Sweet Picks handles Fozzies’ gluten-free bread, cookies, and brownies. I’m happy that we can provide all that and that they do such a good job with it.

How about vegetarian and vegan offerings. Is there more interest? Absolutely. The younger generation especially is taking a hard look at what they’re eating, and the whole organic and plant-forward movement plays to that.

What’s your thought on all the new kitchen technology out there? Call me old-fashioned, but I’d rather cook our expensive ingredients by hand on a flat top than subject them to a new-generation microwave oven. My way tastes better.

Why the new restaurant concept, rather than just duplicating Fozzie’s? My first job was working at a pizza place, and years later I feel I’m qualified to take it to the next level—plus that Ladue address had been a successful pizza joint. There’s a lot to like in that part of Ladue: families, foot traffic, and we can deliver to Clayton.

But it’s a bit hard to find. I like the quirkiness of it, how the cobblestone gangway leads you back to the entrance. We made an outside bar rail where you can hang out and eat a slice. It reminds me of those out-of-the-way pizza shops in New York.

Will both pies and slices be on the menu? Definitely slices at lunch: both square Sicilian slices and traditional ones cut from large round pies. We’ll deliver slices, too. And pick-two’s; a slice and a salad at lunch will be big.

There will be different styles of dough? Thin crust and Sicilian use the same dough. We’ll have a gluten-free. And I’m trying to develop a cauliflower crust that’s not so labor intensive. I’m also playing with a paleo pizza, using coconut flour. All the doughs and sauces are organic.

What’s an example of a specialty pizza? Just the sauce for the Vegan Banh Mi pizza has 15 ingredients, including coconut milk, lemongrass, ginger, and peppers. It’s topped with coconut-sriracha braised organic firm tofu, kimchi, pickled red onions, carrots, radishes, fresh jalapeños, and cilantro and chopped peanuts after the bake. The FUN-dito has sliced house meatballs, fundito cheese sauce, and baby spinach, topped with marinated tomato, red onion, artichoke, fennel, a fresh basil salad, then finished with shaved Parmesan.

What else is on the menu? A selection of appetizers, soups, and eight salads, including the chopped salad from Red-L. My wife made a vegetarian chili, and it beat mine in a neighborhood cookoff—which was humbling—so her award-winning chili will be represented.

Any interesting side dishes? There’s nothing better than an organic russet potato. My plans are to smash it, add a little sauce or cheese, and bake that off with some pizza toppings. What’s not to like about that? Make it as healthy or decadent as you want.

Are you planning to duplicate Humble Pie, or is it a one-off? It could be repeated, or there could be a combination of Fozzie’s and Humble Pie.

Why the name Humble Pie? I wanted to pay tribute to the different styles of pizza. They’re all so primal and basic.

Will there be traditional pies? No, but we will offer a selection of hand pies, which definitely fits in with the simple, humble eat-with-your-hands theme.