Photography by Kevin A. Roberts
Charlie Downs has owned or operated a laundry list of restaurants: Bogart’s on the Landing, Boogaloo, Cyrano’s, Harvest, Imo’s Pizza, Sugarfire Smoke House, Sugarfire Pies… “Entirely too many,” the veteran restaurateur jokes. The latest addition: the Hi-Pointe Drive-In, slated to open this month on the site of the former Del Taco on McCausland.
You didn’t grow up in the business, like many restaurateurs? No, but I starting washed dishes, like a lot of them did, at a place called The Friedens Restaurant, in Chicago. Not just Friedens Restaurant, The Friedens. I never asked why that was.
And you sold restaurant equipment before getting into the business? I owned Parke–Downs Equipment Company for 23 years. Once the food distributors got into the equipment business, however, guys like me could no longer compete.
How did the food-equipment business prepare you for restaurant ownership? It taught me about financing restaurants—which was so hard—about leasing, about good manufacturers and bad ones, about the layout and design of restaurants…all the things people new to the business need to know but don’t. It also showed me how people fail. I sold things to successful owners and to the ones who went belly up. When Bogart’s on the Landing went out of business, I was pretty sure I knew why, so a few of us bought it. We started doing huge volume and thought we were smartest guys in town. In retrospect, we just ran it a little better and watched things a little closer. Each guy did what he did best and stayed out of the other guy’s way. Which is exactly what Mike [Johnson, Downs’ business partner] and Carolyn [Downs' wife and business partner] do now and why we work so well together. It comes down to respect and surrounding ourselves with good people.
Mike Johnson said that eight of his guys could be head chefs anywhere in St. Louis. Which is invaluable from a creative standpoint, and it allows you to expand. Being that deep forces you to expand.
You also did some restaurant consulting. We thought people would pay us for all the things we knew, but discovered that wasn’t the case. By the time we got called in, the restaurant was usually too far gone. All they—or the bank—wanted was an exit strategy; the time had passed for any operational advice. The most interesting part was doing secret shopping, especially at the bar, where we assessed how much money owners were losing. It was often tens of thousands of dollars per year, which was an eye-opener for everybody involved.
How else would you help an operator? We used a spreadsheet—containing both food cost and item sales—to determine where certain things should be placed on the menu. I know owners who have made a lot of money just by switching where certain menu items are located. Heck, we use it at Sugarfire. We put our most profitable item—the combo plates—at top left, the place most people look first.
What other tricks do you have up your sleeve? This one is basic but true: If your walk-in is organized, with everything stored logically and in straight lines, the chances for theft diminish because it’s easier to see if anything’s missing.
Didn’t your ownership of Cyrano’s result from a consulting job there? Our goal at Cyrano’s, when it was on Big Bend, was to stop the bleeding, which we did, but we were unable to do much else. So we closed it and opened Harvest in that space, vowing to resurrect Cyrano’s in some other location, which ended up being in Webster Groves eight years later.
In the ’60s, Cyrano’s was the place for desserts. We wanted the new Cyrano’s in Webster [Groves] to become as famous for its food and beverage program as the original was for desserts, and we’ve done that. In the past three years, Cyrano’s volume has grown just shy of 10 percent each year.
Why? Because my two sons and [daughter in law] Melissa run it now. They like to eat, drink, and travel, and over the past few years they put new menus in place that reflect all that. They are not as rigid as I was about the business. The other factor is that when the economy tanked in 2008, other restaurants came down to our price point but have since gone back up. Cyrano’s pricing stayed the same, which people recognize and appreciate.
What’s one thing about Cyrano’s that people might not know? Our event room is one of the lowest-cost group dining options in town. On Saturday, we often host three events there, such as two showers and a dinner.
How did Sugarfire come about? When Mike [Johnson, a Sugarfire co-owner] and I attended Myron Mixon’s cooking school, we agreed that the biggest difference was that Myron buys the best meat he possibly can. Combine that with Mike’s talent and crazy ideas for side dishes, and we thought we were onto something. In my opinion, the main reason Sugarfire’s brisket is so good is that we use better meat.
How did the Sugarfire name come about? Carolyn [Downs, Cyrano’s pastry chef] wanted to do something with pies, and Mike was interested in barbecue. Sugarfire was the result. Other names that we considered were SugarShack and Muddy River BBQ Co.
How big a role does catering play at Sugarfire? We have 74 part-time employees and $1.2 million pre-booked [as of mid-November] for 2017. It’s become a huge part of our business.
What does Sugarfire do differently? Here’s an example: The mother of the bride trips and breaks her leg the day before the wedding. We cater the reception, and afterward our catering manager, Heather, drives to the hospital and delivers some of everything to the bride’s mom. Heather did all of that on her own. Nobody else even thought to do that. That’s how you get to be a preferred caterer.
How’s the downtown location doing? It’s doing double what we projected and has the highest check average. When people are out of town, they tend to spend more money and try new things. We tried a frozen cocktail machine, for example, that became far more popular than we thought it would.
Will you do more Sugarfires? One of our existing franchisees wants to do spread out and do more stores. We have qualified potential franchisees from out of state. That may be the direction it goes.
What’s the idea behind the Hi-Pointe Drive-In? Flat-grilled burgers reminiscent of In-N-Out and Shake Shack, sandwiches, and Mike’s famous side dishes but no drive-thru. Due to the small size and lack of parking, our emphasis there is on pickup and delivery. I want milk shakes to be a big deal there, too—three or four flavors per day, maybe with pie or a cookie in it. It may not be a high-volume place, but we hope it will be a prototype of some sort.
How did that name come about? We had come up with all these names: PattyShack, CityLine Counter, CountyLine Burgers…but we’re at a high point in the city. There were connotations of it being the high point of your day—or, hopefully, of your life.
What's the obsession with shipping containers? After using a container at the St. Charles Sugarfire for storage and a walk-in because we needed the space, we wondered if we could design one to hold the two smokers downtown. Besides being practical and secure, it’s now one of the focal points of that store, partly due to the colorful paint job. We bought three more to use as a cladding material at the Hi-Pointe. It’s a focal point there, too.
How many restaurants have you owned or co-owned? I don’t know. Too many. Several were Imo’s and several are Sugarfire’s, so I’m never sure how to treat those multiples.
Which one was the most fun? Bogart’s on the Landing, which we owned from ’82 to ’96. We booked live bands there every night, it made a lot of money, it was fun, and it was effortless, because we all played to our strengths. It was paid off in two years, which was probably one reason it was fun.
The biggest pain? The New Orleans-themed place, Beaux Coo, located in the Seven Gables Inn in Clayton. We were in and out of there in six months.
Talk about having a partner versus going it alone. Restaurants are tough, and I never thought I was smart enough to do it alone. I’ve seen a chef fail by himself, a former general manager fail by himself… To know everything you need to know, there needs to be a collaboration of some kind.
To make money in the restaurant business, is it necessary to franchise? Franchising is like getting your kids involved in the business. You can take another step without as much pressure, but you still get the satisfaction of watching your concept succeed. Plus the franchising fee is a nice bonus. To really make money in the restaurant business, you have to own the property. The strip center a person buys or develops, for example, will be worth far more than any restaurant they put in there.
What are the pitfalls of franchising? People think it’s too easy. I think we could sell 20 Sugarfires in a year, but it would be foolish to do so. Everything we’re doing now, we’re doing well. It needs to stay that way.
Is the restaurant business harder or easier than it used to be? If you don’t stay current with all the moving parts—social media, the menu, your costs, the neighborhood, hospitality—your place can get away from you in a hurry. For example, we pay a company several hundred dollars a month just to monitor how we’re doing on social media. We never had to worry about that kind of expense before. It also costs more to get into the game now, and bank money has always been difficult to come by, which makes it harder. You can be the most successful guy in town, and the bank still insists on a personal guarantee, which for many means their house.
How important is it for a restaurant to market itself? For us, developing things like online ordering and streamlining delivery is absolutely crucial. Drive-thrus are slowing down and delivery is on the rise, so we have to stay ahead of that. But then there are those places that do really well and don’t even have a website.
How important is hiring a PR company? The one we use, Green Olive, helps us with national and international exposure. They were instrumental in us [Sugarfire] getting the catering gig for Anthony Bourdain’s show here, which alone paid their fee for several months.
What’s the most important advice for a novice considering getting into the business? Having complementary partners, knowing and practicing hospitality, having good food, of course, and being realistic when negotiating the deal. Prospective owners often agree to unrealistic rent and a bad lease, thinking their concept will overcome everything. It’s like going to the airport on a vacation—people get so excited that reality escapes them.
Looking back, what would you have done differently? Gone to Wharton School of Business and worked for Standard Oil of New Jersey. [Laughs.] Seriously, I’ve been pretty damn lucky. Lucky to have been married for so long, to have children who have manners and respect us, and who are in the business—even though I wish they weren’t. But they love it.
Where does the Sugarfire group go from here? We’re looking into doing a cookbook. We’re good at expanding our brand via social media, but a cookbook can do that even more in a different way. I’d like to keep it current with YouTube videos, something interactive. Mike goes to so many places—and countries—doing so many different things, that part would be easy.
