St. Louis Mayor Tishaura Jones sat down with Nine PBS and SLM for an interview focused on the five items identified as most important to residents via the Citizens’ Agenda. This is a transcript of her remarks. See more coverage of the agenda and other candidates at ninepbs.org and at stlmag.com.
Sarah Fenske: So the first item on the Citizens Agenda, transparency and accountability. And Olivia has a video that we’ll start with on that. Okay.
Get a fresh take on the day’s top news
Subscribe to the St. Louis Daily newsletter for a smart, succinct guide to local news from award-winning journalists Sarah Fenske and Ryan Krull.
[Citizen Video]
My name is Aminhan Lobster and I’m a resident of the Midtown neighborhood. My biggest concerns in regards to the future of the City of St. Louis involve transparency, accountability, and planning for the future. In regards to transparency, I would like to see more active ways in which the community can get involved and readily informed about the status of programming within the City of St. Louis, the status of the city services. For example, when citizens submit requests, I would like a more active portal so citizens can be aware of where those requests are and the status of being answered. In addition, I would like more accountability. I would like continued public hearings and forums in order for citizens of St. Louis to talk to whether that be the Board of Aldermen or even the Mayor’s Office in regards to offering feedback and also getting status updates toward their concerns.
Sarah: Okay. So, building on her thoughts there, what can you do to incorporate the voices of the communities that you serve when you’re making decisions that impact them? Yes.
Tishaura Jones: So, regarding accountability and having more citizen input, we have a quarterly cabinet meeting that we take to different neighborhoods across the city, north, south, the west side, downtown, and we bring all of our cabinet departments there so people can get their answers in real time. So, after we do maybe a 10- or 15-minute update on projects that people may be interested in, then we open it up for questions, and we get a lot of robust feedback and questions from citizens. But the best part about it is when there is an issue, they can be connected to a cabinet member right on the spot and get there and get followed up.
And so, we have known that, you know, having these events in the community has really increased satisfaction or citizen satisfaction with government and being transparent. And the Citizen Service Bureau, we are improving and adding more features to CityWorks, which is the software that runs our Citizen Service Bureau. You can check currently on the status on our website if you retain the number after you put in the request, but you can also call the Citizen Service Bureau and check on the status of that request.
One other thing that we’re doing there is we have monthly or bimonthly meetings that we call LouStat, and we work with the departments that are currently the departments that have the most complaints. So, that’s Parks, Recreation, and Forestry, Streets, Traffic, and Refuse, as well as the Building Division. And we bring all of the city departments, again, together, not in a punitive way, but in a way to ask them what they need, you know, what resources they need.
The budget director is there in case we need to find money to purchase new equipment. The personnel director is there. The Legal Department is there. So, we can have all of those voices at the table to see what the barriers are to making sure that those departments are running as efficiently and effectively as possible.
SF: So, when you’re looking at those complaints, you’re also taking that step back to look holistically at what could be underpinning some of this dissatisfaction.
TJ: Exactly. Whether that’s personnel or equipment, we’re looking at the time it takes to respond to make sure that that is closed. We had to do an entire exercise with our departments to actually make sure that we were all talking the same language because closed to one department could mean just we received it.
Closed to another department could mean we received it and we acted on it. So, we had to make sure that we were using the same language and making sure that we all had the same definitions going forward.
SF: And do you feel like those meetings have made a difference over time?
TJ: We do. We do. So, we’re able to set goals and track the progress on those goals. For example, the Streets Department has a goal of filling potholes within 24 to 48 hours. And so, we track their progress and their success there. They’ve been able to improve on that statistic dramatically since we started having these conversations. So, we’re setting goals to get back to our citizens and then tracking those and following up and seeing what our KPIs are.
SF: Something else that a lot of citizens brought up is they’d like to see different parts of city government work better together. And I’m wondering, what can you do to work with other parts of city government and sometimes other government agencies that might be hostile, as in Jefferson City?
TJ: Yes. So, as people know, we have nine citywide elected officials and 14 aldermen. And so, and six of those offices are what we call county offices.
I have monthly meetings, open door meetings with those countywide officials to let them know what’s going on in their city government, to let them ask me any questions. We’ve been able to collaborate on several different projects, find money and federal grants, for example, for several different departments. Because we realize that even though, you know, everybody has their own sort of department, we can work together.
And so, we’re working with the license collector’s office to make sure that they have what they need to upgrade their software, as well, and trying to make sure that those departments are talking to each other, as well, software-wise. So, that process is already happening. And I instituted it because I came from the county side into the municipal side.
SF: When you were at the treasurer’s office.
TJ: Yeah, when I was the treasurer. Also, we have monthly calls with the alders to give them monthly updates, as well as take their questions and make sure that we have a constant line of communication with them, as well. So, while we realize we don’t control everything, that doesn’t mean that we aren’t working together.
SF: What about that relationship with Jeff City? Lawmakers there, obviously, have a much different view of how they think things should be run. Do you think there’s anything the mayor can do to make that relationship better, knowing the perspective they’re coming from?
TJ: Well, I always point out to them that I am a recovering legislator, so I’m a former member of the body. But I also invite them here to see it for themselves.
You know, a lot of times people take their perception of what St. Louis is and what we are not from the news that they hear. Because if you watch the news, you would think that, you know, crime is out of control, and you know, despite the data that we’ve been able to provide. But I ask them, come to St. Louis and see for yourself. Come sit with our police department and watch them do a CompStat meeting and see how they really do a deep dive into the data and the connections between certain crimes. Come talk to our employees and hear from them directly on how they feel about working for the city. Come talk to our business owners and some of our businesses and how they feel.
But I think that we automatically sort of write something off because we don’t know and we don’t take that time to build those relationships. Relationships are primary, and so I’m always trying to build relationships with our colleagues in Jefferson City. It may not always work, but it doesn’t mean that I don’t try.
SF: So one thing we heard, again, from residents is they say they’re frustrated by just how many times the city will put a plan together. And then sometimes it’ll put a plan together that means we need another plan. They say they’re tired of planning.
They want to move past that consultant stage and get to action. Yes. What can the mayor do to propel these things forward?
TJ: Well, we are taking some of those plans and putting them into action. Our Economic Justice Action Plan, for example, which we started in 2022, is in action. And residents in North St. Louis and parts of South St. Louis can see that through the investments that we’re making, the houses that we’re tearing down, the houses that we’re building and generating mortgages. Our Transportation Mobility Plan, which is the first citywide transportation plan in decades, they will start to see that in action as well as we start to address our 10 most dangerous intersections. And when it comes to the springtime, they’ll start to see our major thoroughfares, north-south thoroughfares, be repaved. And then, you know, we’re updating our zoning because we have to plan in the future.
We have to be ready for this future growth. So, updating the zoning is a huge part of that. So, we’re doing that through the Strategic Land Use Plan.
So, all of these things, we have to set a foundation in order to prepare for future growth.
SF: Some of our focus group participants brought up some of the bad headlines that have come for the St. Louis Development Corporation. Also, this scandal that the building division has been involved in.
I know you asked the FBI to take a look at that. What do you think the city can do differently to prevent public funds from going to bad actors?
TJ: Well, I mean, as we saw even with the Board of Aldermen, sometimes there’s nothing we can do.
But what I can tell citizens is when it hits my desk, I’m going to fix it. We’re going to act. And just like with the building division, we fixed that. And so, you know, now the FBI is investigating to see what other things are going on there. And then also with SLDC, we took a step back, brought in a third-party auditor. That auditor also agreed with us that no funds were expended that shouldn’t have been expended.
Our issue with that, and we take full accountability for that, is we announced the conditional awards too soon. So, we have taken the step back. We will pause and make the corrective actions that need to be made. And then we’ll continue to move forward.
SF: So, the second item on our agenda. City services. This is something a lot of people are talking about. One of the things that they bring up is residents say they don’t feel valued by the city, that they feel like the level of services is almost an insult to them because of the taxes that they pay, and they feel like they’re not up to snuff. Do you think that’s fair for people to feel that way?
TJ: I would say in some instances, yes. I think that’s a fair feeling. Are we trying to address it? Absolutely. Just like any other city in the country, we are also experiencing a labor shortage.
For example, we have 55 routes for Refuse, but we have 39 or 40 drivers on a good day. And we’re trying to recruit more drivers, but as soon as we recruit a driver and train that person and that person has a commercial driver’s license, they’re being picked off by another private company because they can pay more, and the city has not done a good job of keeping up with the pay scale to compete with private industry. So we try to offer other benefits to try to even that playing field.
But we realize that we have to do more, and we will do more, but we have to also fill a lot of those vacant positions and look at our pay scale, and we’re actually in the process of doing that right now with a comprehensive pay study.
SF: And you feel like that could help with a lot of these parts of city government where there are such big shortages?
TJ: We’re also trying to address it with our officers as well.
SF: Police officers?
TJ: Yeah, police officers. We just negotiated another raise, so this is the second raise in two years, and we are also in the middle of a wage re-opener, so that will start later on this week. So we will stay at the table until we can try to get to a point where everybody is just a little bit uncomfortable because we realize we have a finite amount of money to pay our officers and pay our employees. We want to try to stay as competitive as possible because we realize that municipalities from around the region also pick off our well-trained officers from our nationally accredited police force, so that’s something that we’re going to have to deal with for the foreseeable future.
SF: So the January 5th snowstorm seems to have engendered a lot of anger and frustration from residents. I’m sure you’ve heard it. What do you think the city could have done better in retrospect?
TJ: Well, first off, for anybody watching this interview, I want to apologize. We have used the same snow plan for previous years, and this particular snowstorm we found that it was inadequate to respond. So I want to apologize for not being able to pivot sooner, to call for help sooner, and our citizens deserve an apology from me, and the buck stops with me.
However, we are learning from this. We are learning from other cities as well. We all know that St. Louis doesn’t get snowstorms like this, so how can we prepare in the future and have the equipment that we need in the future, but not buy so much equipment that it continues to rot, right?
So there has to be a happy medium there, and so we are studying the snow plans of cities similar to ours, and I’ve been on the phone with several mayors in the Midwest to see how we can copy some of their ideas because the best mayors steal ideas from other mayors, and making sure that we are prepared for this in the future and share that information with the public as well as what their expectations are from us because we’ve never plowed residential streets. That has never been a policy, and so we’re going to make sure that whatever our policy is is going to be transparent and shared with the public going forward.
SF: There’s a proposal at the Board of Aldermen to create a city administrator position. Would you support that or a city manager variation on it?
TJ: Well, you know, our government is set up in a very unique way that I don’t think that a city manager would even make a difference. For example, we have six countywide office holders that that city manager would not be responsible for.
We have an independent personnel director that city manager wouldn’t be responsible for. We have an independently elected comptroller that that city manager wouldn’t be responsible for. In most forms of city management, that city manager is responsible for payroll, finance, and a whole host of other things that we currently have separately elected officials for.
And so if we’re not going to address that, then this is, in my opinion, this is a moot point, and it just creates another level of bureaucracy for people to not get access to services, and this bill doesn’t address any of those things.
SF: Let’s go to our third topic, public safety and policing. So you’d mentioned there the raises for police officers. Jay Schroeder, president of the St. Louis Police Officers Association, says the department has lost 512 officers since 2021. That’s the year you took office. Do you think any left because of you or your decisions?
TJ: I don’t think so. I think that they left because they were reaching retirement age. You can retire from the police department after 20 years, which is not a lot of time when you think of it.
And at the time when I took office, the police department or the police officers association was at an impasse from the previous administration, and we worked to get through that impasse and pass a really healthy benefits package for our officers. And since then, dozens have come back and we’ve been able to hire a lot more through our recruitment program that the police foundation has helped us fund. So I think but I also let’s take a step back.
Nationally, a lot of officers are leaving this profession. So it’s not just St. Louis. We, I’ve seen with my brother’s sister mayors from across the country, some of them offering up bonuses up to one hundred thousand dollars and nobody’s taking it.
So Tacoma, Washington, is offering $25,000 signing bonuses. So there is a… I would say this is a national issue. In St. Louis, you know, unfortunately is down officers as well. But I also would like to point out that crime is still down despite being down officers.
So this is also a time to look at what is the right number of authorized strength that our chief has been doing that to make sure that we have enough to respond to the violent crime that we do have in the city of St. Louis.
SF: So crime is down on the number of homicides. It’s gone way down, 40 percent down since you took office.
But a stat that’s a little more complicated in 2013, that’s the year the city gained local control. The homicide rate was 37.7 per 100,000 residents. Since then, it’s been consistently higher. And in 2024, it was 53.2. So again, way down than when you took office.
TJ: Right.
SF: But not as low as it was when the city was able to attain local control of its own department. Do Republicans in Jeff City have a point when they say the city’s homicide problem is worse now than it was when the state was in charge?
TJ: Well, I think we should also look at what the population was in 2013, because if you’re talking about a stat that’s per 100,000, we’ve also lost a significant amount of population since then.
So the stat that I like to look at is what was the number of murders or homicides in 2013 versus what is it now? And we know that we’ve been able to reduce our homicides to a level of pre to pre pandemic levels. And we’re still going down.
Even today. Last year, we were at 16 homicides. And as we’re taping this today, we’re at eight, which I think is a step in the right direction.
And we have to realize that the state’s not going to give us any help on gun control. You know, we have the most lax laws in the country when it comes to gun control. And so it’s like blaming the victim for the remedy.
And that’s you know, that’s ridiculous. And the goalposts keep moving when it comes to the reason why they want a state takeover of our police department. First, it was our homicides were too high.
Well, we brought that down by 40 percent. Then it was pay for our officers. They’ve gotten two raises, the highest raises they’ve received in the last 20 years under my administration.
And so this year, when I went back, it was population loss. Now, tell me how a state takeover is going to help increase population. It’s not.
SF: So one of the other things that people feel like makes them feel unsafe, it’s not just the worry about homicide. It’s also what feels like sometimes the lawless St. Louis drivers. And it took more than two years after a couple of fatal crashes for the city to begin constructing the safety improvements that are now underway at Ted Drewes. How do you think the city can move faster to improve pedestrian safety?
TJ: Well, specifically when you mentioned Ted Drewes, we were working with the leadership there and we were waiting for answers from them.
SF: The owner of the custard stand.
TJ: Exactly, exactly. And then once we agree, he agreed on what he wanted to see there. Then we ran into supply chain issues.
We run into supply chain issues all over the country. So we have been working feverishly with the leadership at Ted Drewes to make sure that we can address that intersection or that section of triple wise as best we can. We are also reinstating red light cameras.
We went through a review with our attorneys to make sure that people had due process as we reinstate them and we’re not targeting already vulnerable populations. So people should start to see those come back, hopefully in 2025, if not 2026.
SF: Your state of public safety report said that in 2024 St. Louis police issued 27,000 traffic tickets, which I think might surprise some people. You also doubled the number of joint ops that the department did with the state highway patrol. Do you think we’re going to see increased traffic enforcement again in 2025?
TJ: Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. We’re going to continue to do the things that work and that keep people safe. You know, our traffic patrols, we don’t announce where they’re going.
So that way, you know, they surprise people a little bit. But again, not trying to target already vulnerable populations and trying to keep people safe at the same time. That also goes hand in hand with our transportation mobility plan to address our ten most dangerous intersections and reduce our number of pedestrian deaths as well.
SF: So one of the more high profile incidents involving the police during your time as mayor was when these pair of rookie police officers crashed their car into Bar:PM. And then another officer showed up, arrested the bar owner, allegedly beat him up. The city is still pressing criminal charges against that bar owner. Do you think the city has done a good enough job holding officers accountable when they violate people’s rights?
TJ: Yes. And we saw that just with recent news that happened in 2023 of the officers who encountered someone who was about to commit suicide in Forest Park.
Those officers are no longer with the force, even though that news just came out in 2025. We handled that quietly, held those officers accountable and they are no longer with the department.
SF: Those were officers who sort of clocked out rather than deal with the situation.
TJ: Exactly. Exactly. Chief Tracy, like the kids say, he doesn’t play when it comes to holding officers accountable. He wants to make sure his officers are out in the community, rebuilding trust, going to hundreds of community meetings and making sure that they’re available. And I think that we can see that through our closure rate, our closure rate for clearance rate.
Nationally, the standard is 50 percent. We are at 70 percent because of the trust that we built with the community.
SF: So we’re heading into our fourth agenda item. We’ve got another short video for you. And this fourth agenda item is revitalizing downtown.
[Citizen Video]
My name is Ron Crooks. I live in the central West End. I think we have to understand that and agree that there is a critical lack of momentum in the single most important demonstration of a city’s viability. And that is our downtown. We’ve got to be asking ourselves some hard questions about this. And and really look into whether or not we’re doing everything we can to build a downtown that is attractive to business and to residents and potential residents and tourism. There simply must be a plan to improve both the reality and the perception of St. Louis’ downtown viability to these strategic strategically important audiences.
SF: So 10 years ago, I think it feels to a lot of residents that downtown felt like a more desirable neighborhood than it does today. What do you think happened to that momentum? And is there something the mayor can do to help ensure that people want to live there, want to work there?
TJ: Well, I think the biggest thing that happened in that 10 year period was the global pandemic that we all went through that emptied our downtowns across the country.
And so we are seeing conversions of office buildings into residential. We’ve seen that even with the old gas building, which is now a residential high rise. We are working with our partners at Greater St. Louis Inc. and SLDC to address some of the largest buildings that have been vacant for decades. The Railway Exchange building where people know is the old Famous Barr or Macy’s and the Millennium Hotel. Back in September, I issued a call to action or may I shoot a call of action to SLDC and GSL to bring me a plan within 90 days.
They did so. And we have acquired the Millennium Hotel from the owners who were in Singapore. And also we are in the last stages of eminent domain on the Railway Exchange building.
And we’re going to redevelop both of those sites. The Railway Exchange building, I don’t know if your viewers know, is the second largest by square feet building in the state of Missouri. And so it’s going to be it’s a lot.
It’s a lot to tackle. But we think that it’s worth it because it’s right smack dab in the middle of our own and we have to reactivate that space. We are also doing a streetscape improvements to connect Ballpark Village to the convention center on 7th Street.
So all of that construction should be done by the spring or summer. We see reactivation in our public places through Kiener Plaza and the events that we have there. So GSL has been a great partner in bringing people downtown.
And our goal is to make downtown the cultural and cultural hub of our region to make it vibrant and beautiful and active. We want people to choose downtown not only for sports, but we also have a retail incentive going to attract more retail downtown. So these plans are going.
It’s just that people don’t see them. But a lot of things are going on behind the scenes.
SF: So in your inaugural speech, you said, quote, I stand ready to begin putting equity for people, not equity for wealthy developers, at the center of our planning.
And at the same time downtown hit these problems during the pandemic. The Wall Street Journal had some really negative headlines about this one part of downtown. And developers haven’t been seeking us out on their own. Does the city have a responsibility to lure them? And if so, how far do we go in doing that?
TJ: Well, I think we’ve done a good job at luring developers. What we’ve seen with the Millennium Hotel there, we’ve received several proposals for that building. And we have attracted new business to the city, not necessarily downtown, but other places. We were able to attract Delistar from Illinois to build their facility in St. Louis. The Battery Plant ICL is building a half a billion dollar facility in north St. Louis. And Procter & Gamble, we went through a competitive process to expand their facility to build more warehousing and manufacturing space for their consumer products line. So I think that given that and the other sort of business that is coming to the city, I think in the next three to five years, St. Louis is the place where everybody’s going to want to be.
SF: I love the sound of that. So the downtown residents we’ve talked to have said that the quality of life has noticeably improved in recent years. But this negative perception still dominates. If anything, it seems stronger than ever. Why do you think that is? And do you think it’s the mayor’s responsibility to try to tell a compelling story about downtown?
TJ: Well, it takes time for perception to catch up with reality. The reality is that crime downtown is down over 50 percent from the previous year. And I think this is another one of those things where people are just going to have to come and experience it themselves and come to a restaurant or a baseball game or a hockey game or a soccer game and feel the electricity and feel the excitement that happens, especially when we have like more than one game downtown on a single day.
I mean, I think there was a time when we had three sporting events all on the same day and it was electric. Everything was just all lit up downtown. So I think that people are just going to have to come and see for themselves and take our word for it that downtown is safe.
We have put in the proper infrastructure and the proper personnel to make sure that we are making sure that their visits there are going to be safe and they’ll have a good time.
SF: So we are now at our final item on the citizens agenda. And that this is one is a little more amorphous. People want a vision for the city’s future. So let’s hear from one more of our focus group participants.
[Citizen Video]
I’m Sid Issar and I’m in Ward 7. And with regards to the upcoming mayoral election, the most important issues for me are that we use public money, city expenditures to fund non-charter St. Louis public schools and make sure that we increase the availability of free pre-K for everyone that needs it. After school services and various city social services for the populations that need it most.
I don’t want to see city money going to fund corporations that are complicit in war crimes abroad and in weapons manufacturing. And I don’t want to see increases in police budgets. Instead we need to reallocate money to make sure that the most vulnerable and our city public schools are properly funded.
And that we need to make sure that we keep the money in our wards and in our city instead of going into the pockets of corporations.
SF: So Sid had a lot of thoughts there.
TJ: Yes he did.
SF: But he did touch a few times on the St. Louis public schools. This has generated a lot of bad headlines in the last year. It’s something where the mayor doesn’t have direct control. But it feels so essential to getting people to put down roots in St. Louis and stay here. What can the mayor do about that situation?
TJ: Well I’m a mom myself and I’ll be totally transparent. My son is in a parochial school because that was the best choice for him. I don’t judge any parent to find the right choice for their children. And as mayor I can’t pick winners and losers. I have to serve all of our children no matter what educational institution that they’re going to.
And that’s what our rec centers are for. We’ve made robust investments in our rec centers and our youth programming for that time out of school. So after school programming, partnering with boys and girls clubs of St. Louis as well, recreational programming. And then we have a liaison directly in the mayor’s office. That’s a liaison to all of our educational institutions including SLPS. To let them know that we are here to help whatever they need.
And I will be totally honest and let people know that I was the one who called for an audit of SLPS. Given the headlines that we were seeing, especially with the former superintendent and the credit card bills that we’ve seen in recent days or in recent months via the news. People deserve to know how their money is being spent.
And again, I believe that as mayor it’s my responsibility to take care of our children in their out of school time and their environment so they can arrive at school fresh, ready to learn. Parents have what they need to help their families thrive. So my responsibility is the environment that our children come from when they arrive to school.
SF: You mentioned that your son is in parochial school and that’s the case for my kids as well. I think there’s so many city families that feel like the public schools just aren’t an option at this point. Is that something you think needs to change for the city to grow? Or do you think we can make this work by people finding their own solution separate from our public school district?
TJ: Absolutely. Any world-class city or any city that’s experiencing growth also has good schools. And all of the things that we’ve talked about over the last several minutes will be for naught if we don’t have quality educational options no matter where people live in the city. So in my opinion, it shouldn’t matter if someone is in north St. Louis or south St. Louis. That neighborhood school should be a great quality educational option for that family no matter what part of the city they live in.
And so I’m hopeful that our school board will get things on the right track and make sure that they are putting the children first and making sure that our teachers are rewarded for being there in the trenches day in and day out to take care of our babies.
SF: So there’s a perception amongst many residents that we talk to who feels that the St. Louis region and downtown they sometimes brought up specifically have fallen behind our western neighbor in Kansas City. Do you think there’s anything we can learn from what they’re doing right?
TJ: Well, I think that’s an apples and oranges comparison. Kansas City is also a larger city geographically than St. Louis. And as a result, they have 400,000 people.
We struggle a little under 300,000. But I think that one of the things we haven’t done in the city is create more housing opportunities all across the city for St. Louis. And that’s why we have a moonshot goal to create another 10,000 units by the year 2030.
Half affordable, half market rate because we can’t just squeeze everybody into one part of town. We have an entire north side that hasn’t been invested in in decades. And we haven’t seen mortgage generation there in decades.
And so we have to build new and infill housing. We’re looking at how to build that faster. We received a pro-housing grant from HUD to be able to accelerate the production of housing and making sure that people have quality, affordable housing no matter where they live in the city.
And that and we think that the more people that are in certain neighborhoods or if we infill those neighborhoods, those neighborhoods become safer because they’re filled with homeowners, renters, families and the like.
SF: So one of the big things that people say is they want a mayor who has a vision for St. Louis. What would you say your vision is?
TJ: My vision is a St. Louis that is safer, healthier and stronger in the coming years for our city. I have a vision of expanding public transit, building a new airport, making that a world class facility because St. Louis is a world class city, making sure that our convention and visitors industry continues to attract big conventions and tourism to our city and have a vision of equity to make sure that no matter where you live in the city, that you have the same opportunities and the same access to resources as anyone else, no matter where you live, that your zip code doesn’t determine your opportunity.
And so we are making those investments to make sure that that’s the future that we want to build for St. Louis.
SF: Well, I want to thank you for joining us today. Thank you very much.
TJ: Thank you.
