Photography by Kevin A. Roberts
Mark Hinkle will open a restaurant—his first—in Webster Groves this month. His partner is Greg Ortyl, with whom the former GM of Annie Gunn’s shares a common bond: both had sons born with congenital heart defects and both died at a young age. The restaurant, olive + oak, could refer to two trees that live to a great age. Or to two young boys, Oliver (Ollie) Hinkle and Oakes Ortyl, who never had that opportunity. It’s hard not to like the place already.
When did you think of getting into the business? A friend was managing at Hugo’s [Frog Bar & Fish House] in Chicago. I’d worked in restaurants in college, but the moment I saw Hugo’s and Gibson’s on Rush [Street] is when I wanted in. The scale, the elegance, people waiting two and a half hours for a table—on a Tuesday. It was level of dining I’d never witnessed. At that moment it occurred to me that people there are making a great living….maybe I can do this. The following week I asked my friend for a job and started as a host, working the front door. The place was doing 500-700 covers a night. I was young and it was crazy.
Did any money ever change hands at the front desk? [smiles] Um, that happens a little bit… Much more in Chicago than here. But it was more our regulars rather than a first timer trying to avoid a two-our wait. One woman would slip us a hundro every time she came in. She’d get her table and her server, and knew if her kids came in, they’d get the same treatment.
What else did you do while at Hugo’s? I began waiting tables there, but broke my leg while skiing in Colorado. Last run of the day and I run straight into a tree. Unable to work the floor, I went into the management training program. Not long after that, I was asked to become GM.
What was your first stop in St. Louis? I had zero restaurant connections here. Fortunately, Joe Buck used to come into Hugo’s with the Cardinals when they were in town. So when I heard Joe’s group was opening a place downtown, I reached out and got the job as the opening GM.
You later became GM of Annie Gunn’s. What is it about that place? It’s lightning in a bottle. Thom [owner Thom Sehnert] pulled off a rare feat that he knows will be hard to duplicate, even with temptations like The Cheshire and Busch’s Grove. There’s something magical there—the lure of the smokehouse, or a staff that’s been there forever, or the fact that it got even better after the flood.
What aspect of Annie Gunn’s will apply to your restaurant? Thom Sehnert takes care of his employees. People who started as teenagers are still there in their 40s. They’re entrenched in the place, proud of it. That’s what grateful people give an owner in return.
How long have you wanted to open your own place? Since way before I should have even been thinking about it. Over the years, I’ve put together files full of menus and concepts, many of which someone else ended up doing. My wife jokes about it when she sees one: “I remember you talking about that one a few years ago…wow, it even almost has the same name.” Not that I’m some visionary, but I love restaurants and trying to figure out what’s next.
What’s the biggest hurdle in opening a restaurant these days? Restaurants are incredibly expensive. We’ll end up spending a million dollars before it’s all said and done. I’ve known for a long time that’s the magic number. But it’s still crazy.
How did you and your partner get together? Greg and Becky [Ortyl] lost their son, Oakes, about six months before Jenn and I lost our son, Ollie. Some mutual friends got us together, as they’d just gone through the same thing. We became friends, we both established foundations for our sons, we moved to Webster where they live, our girls are the same age and go to school together. With all those ties it was hard not to become close.
Will olive + oak be an everyday place or a special occasion restaurant? Trying to be both goes wrong more often than it goes right. However, Annie Gunn’s does it very, very well, and I hope we can, too. Diners can spend a lot of money or get the best hamburger in town for a decent price. Anyone can draw up that kind of menu—the difference is the atmosphere and hospitality in which you deliver it.
At what point does value enter the equation? Diners have to remember that a restaurant can provide value at any price point. We learned that at Hugo’s and I preach it today. It’s not just about high sales…at Hugo’s, our servers downsold. We had a different philosophy—we wouldn’t let guests over order.
Explain that. If two people ordered double-baked potatoes—which were massive—we’d suggest splitting one. Same thing with desserts. If they want another one, no problem, but they still appreciate the gesture.
Would that more places adopted that philosophy. If a guy ordered a vodka/soda, he got a basic vodka and soda. If he wanted a name brand, he would have asked. We knew our customer well enough not to challenge them on things like that. It makes people uncomfortable and uncomfortable people don’t come back. A restaurant doesn’t have to squeeze every dollar out of every customer every night
I agree. Constant upselling can wear out a restaurant customer. The last thing a restaurant wants to be is a rip-off joint. You have to think long term. When it’s a snowy Monday night and you have a room full of loyal guests, I guarantee the rip-off joint will be empty.
Talk about the beverage program at olive + oak. It won’t lean any one way until we know it should. Cocktails, beer, and wine will all get their due attention. I like to drink interesting wines, for example, but we’ll have straight ahead wines, too, served in appropriate stemware at their proper temperatures. Most people don’t want to spend $80 on a bottle of wine, so the list will reflect that. But for those folks who expect a little Annie Gunn’s, we’ll have those bottles as well.
Describe the menu. American cuisine. Items that are interesting, but familiar, like whole fish cooked in a salt crust, which comes out incredibly moist and isn’t seen on menus very often. And classic dishes, like Rockefellers and tartars, which done right are fantastic. Price points will be mostly in the teens and 20s, plus less expensive sandwiches and a great burger. Like Annie Gunn’s, it can get expensive, but it doesn’t have to be. Can we be Annie Gunn’s? No, but we will definitely be influenced by them.
Will olive + oak serve both lunch and dinner? Dinner first, followed by weekend brunch, then lunch. From a design standpoint, the bar will be the focal point. I want it to be the heart and soul of the restaurant. A lively bar creates community.
You’ve got several Annie Gunn’s alums in the kitchen. If you’ve been at Annie Gunn’s during the last 15 years, Jesse [exec sous chef Jesse Mendica] played a big part in your meal. She puts out great food every night. Joining her are sous chefs Kevin Pellegrino--from Annie Gunn’s and most recently from Five Bistro—and Joe Biondo, who came from BC’s Kitchen.
How will olive + oak be different than other restaurants? One challenge when setting up a restaurant is how to make every seat a good seat. One thing we did was eliminate a cluttered row of tables down the middle of the space. Would those seats have made us money? Absolutely. But was it the right thing to do? No.
