Photo by Corey Boyles. Courtesy of Random House.
Esme Symes-Smith has always been a fantasy reader. They thrived writing fan fiction online, and were immersed in the world of Harry Potter for decades (before J.K. Rowling began sharing her anti-trans opinions). Now, Symes-Smith has created their own fantasy world, one that they say is made for anyone and everyone, with the first installment of a new adventure series, Sir Callie and the Champions of Helston. In it, Callie, who is nonbinary, wants to be a knight—but the rigid hierarchy of Helston says they should be learning magic. Joined by some new friends—the twins, Elowen and Edwyn, plus crown prince Willow—Callie proves that, no matter what the world expects of you, you can be a hero on your own terms. We caught up with Symes-Smith ahead of their book launch at The Novel Neighbor to talk about the merits of fantasy, creating Callie, and their own journey.
What drew you to fantasy to begin with?
I've always been like a fantasy reader. I grew up on the Tamora Pierce books, specifically [the characters] Alanna and Kel. They were my absolute favorites when I was a kid. I did a lot of fan fiction, and I was deep into Harry Potter nonsense for 20 years, and then J.K. Rowling came out and was awful. So I've so I've always been interested in fantasy, and it's always been a really good vessel important conversations. Even in my fics, I was always really focused on domestic issues and social issues within the context of fantasy. I feel like fantasy is a safe place to explore scary things. Callie was the first book I set out to just have some fun with. It was an adventure book and I wrote it in 2020, when we just got into quarantine. I had just submitted my first book, which didn't end up selling, so it was really pretty miserable. I just wanted to write something fun and fluffy—the girl knight book of my dreams. But like every other thing I write, it always ends up a little bit heavier and a little bit deeper than just your regular fantasy. I really enjoy using magic as a metaphor for other things. I always have.
Tell me about creating the world of Helston.
Helston is actually a real place in Cornwall. Though the Helston in the books is very different, it’s based on Tintagel, which is right on the cusp of Cornwall. I really loved this real/fantasy aspect of Cornwall. It was where I grew up. So when it came to creating the landscape of the world, I really wanted to go back. It was a love letter to the places I grew up in.
What a cool opportunity to inject some magic into a world you already know.
Yeah, and I feel like a lot of American authors treat England as a fantasy land. I know all of my fantasy author friends from the U.S. are very invested in making their worlds very British, which cracks me up. So it made sense to me that I would take from Dartmoor and Cornwall and Devon when it came to creating Callie’s world.
When it came to creating these characters, was it Callie who came to you first, or did they all sort of emerge together?
It’s funny. I got the inspiration a day before the April NaNoWriMo in 2020. Someone had tweeted about wanting a story about Alanna, Jonathan, and Thayet, who are the characters from [Tamora Pierce's Song of the Lioness] books. It’s kind of a scrappy knight, a prince, and a lady. And I was like, Ooh, that sounds like a really good combination to me. I really want to write that friendship group. So Callie came first, and they were very easy to work with. Willow came second, and he was always very much himself, which was really cool. Elowen took a little bit to get into and to find her, because she's very, very closed off. She's kind of the first proper girl character I've written comfortably. I was always drawn to the boy characters and the non-binary characters. So it was really fun to dig into her and keep her very feminine. It took a lot to question my own views on femininity and girls. Especially because I didn't want to make it seem like Callie wasn't a girl because they didn't want to be a girl or because they didn't like female things. They're just not a girl because they're not a girl.
Why was it important for you to bring some of these discussions about identity and gender into this fantasy space?
So, originally Callie was not non-binary. I think I did a draft and a half where Callie was a she/her girl. Then I was deep into draft two—I think it was when Callie and Elowen were having their first conversation and Callie’s being a bit defensive about femininity and Elowen—and I was kind of questioning myself. Callie felt like a very much “not like other girls” character. And Callie’s always been very much me, kind of my personality, my story. So I was questioning myself and my assumptions about girls and femininity, and then I realized that Callie wasn't cis, and I was like, Oh, god. Because 1. I don't want to write outside my lane. And 2. Callie was always very me, so what did that mean for me? I had to take a step back and do some soul searching. And that was when I realized I was non-binary, too. So we were kind of working that out together. I really wanted Callie to be the example for other kids as to what it's like on the other side of that trauma of working out who you are and being denied who you are.
Crafting their character while figuring out your own must have been a really interesting experience.
Totally. And it was really cool to go through that process together. Even though it was just me, I went through it with Callie. And they're much more self-assured than I am. They were kind of the example for me as well. It was like a week before J.K. Rowling came out with that awful, transphobic letter, and it was just like the biggest kick in the teeth in the world. I was left with a lot of feelings there, because I cannot emphasize enough how deeply embedded into Harry Potter that I was. It was my everything. And then, I remember reading that letter, and it felt like parental rejection. It really did. It was exactly the way that my mother always made me feel. And it was just that realization that, no matter how much you love someone, they can still hate you. It's real grief. And we knew that she wasn't great for a very long time. I knew as a kid that [J.K. Rowling] didn't like people like me. I was always very much a Slytherin. I loved Draco, Snape...the flawed characters. And she always made it really, really clear that she didn't like those fans. She didn't like those characters. Anyone who didn't come out of abuse shiny and happy and forgiving was bad in her eyes. As a kid going through some of the stuff that I went through, I came out angry. And I kind of knew that there wasn't really a place for me in that world. Because Harry Potter was so embedded in the real world, that was a really rough thing. Honestly, in creating Callie and the story of the Helston kids, I really wanted to make it clear that there's a place for everyone, regardless of how they turn out or what their journey's like to find a home and be safe and loved in the end.
So in creating your own fantasy world and series, you got to sort of correct what was wrong with the one you grew up on?
Yeah. I didn't really experience a lot of queerphobia in my childhood, but I experienced a lot of weird rejection when it came to the way that my family is and the way that I am. It always made me feel like I had to forgive people for unforgivable things and I had to present myself a certain way to be worthy of my own redemption arc. But that's not true. And I love that.
Tell me about some of the pieces of yourself that you’ve put into these characters.
Honestly, I feel like all of my characters are a little piece of me. I think that's why fiction is such a good vessel for working yourself out as a writer. Callie is very obviously an Aries, like myself. But you know, there’s people like Willow, who feel and love so deeply that it hurts them. I remember feeling like that, and it really sucks. But Willow is an example of the kind of kid that I would like to be. I would like to continue to maintain my softness. During the time of 2016 to 2020, I just felt so angry and hard all the time, and it was exhausting. So, with Willow, I really wanted to create a character who is able to maintain that softness and that sweetness even through adversity. I think Elowen is the least like me, but I think she represents all of the girls that I've known in my life—the very cis girls who love makeup and love pretty things, but are also badass in their own way. You can be both. And Edwyn is all of my rage, and all of my resentment, and just the desire to be loved by someone who you know is never going to love you. His journey best represents my own internal journey.
As somebody plays a lot of D&D and other RPGs, I find fantasy to be a really good lens to explore things about yourself and figure things out in space that feel both real and unreal.
Yes. It’s great! And I feel like a lot of middle-grade books, especially books set in contemporary times, sometimes feel almost too close to home. The glass case drops, and it's just a bit too raw. So I feel like fantasy maintains that kind of fence where you can see it, but you don't have to touch it.
Your release date is around the corner, and some folks have gotten a chance to meet Callie and their friends already. What has the initial response been like?
It's been amazing. I've been very reflective on it these last few weeks, because I've been working up to this point my whole life, and it doesn't feel real. I don't think it's ever going to feel real. But I've been very lucky in my journey. My publishing team really understands the mission that I wanted to achieve for this book, and they've supported me and elevated me. From conception and drafting, I spent a lot of my time on Twitter, especially in 2020. And I really wanted to share the journey from conception all the way through to whatever end it took with everyone. The response to Callie and Willow and Elowen—all of them—has just been insane, and I love how everyone can take something a little bit different from the book. Everyone has their favorite characters for different reasons. Certain parts resonate with certain people, and it's just been so much more than I ever could have allowed myself to dream. I grew up with fan fiction. I posted regularly, and the validation was very addictive. I love being read, I love being reviewed. And when you're writing original fiction, you don't really expect to have that connection with your readership. But I have, all the way from the beginning. I never expected [Sir Callie] to go anywhere. I didn't expect this book to publish. I certainly didn't expect it to publish as well as it has or have the critical reception that it has. It blows my mind every time that someone reads it and is excited about it. Or, if I'm talking about it and someone's like, "Oh my gosh, I wish I had that book when I was a kid." It just blows my mind. It really does.
The response has been so strong that you’re already promising the next installment. What can you tell me about where Callie’s story goes from here?
I just handed in Book Two for the second to last time. It needs a copyedit, but it's done apart from that. It's crazy. I've seen a cover, and it's flawless. I just love this book so much. The first book we revised to get sold, so a lot of choices were made because of the market. Book Two, my editor and I had worked together. She trusted me to do what I needed to do. I trusted her to tell me if I needed to change anything. So I really drafted it just for myself again, and then I gave her the synopsis and said, “If you want anything big changed, let me know.” And she didn't. So Book Two is the most “Esme” book that I've ever written, and I can't believe that I get to publish it. It's wild. I did have a little hiccup because, for a moment, I thought, Oh, maybe it's going to be a magical school series. They're going stay in Helston and Callie’s going to learn how to be a knight. But, you know, I realized that the story as a whole, especially for the other kids, needed to be something different. They needed to keep going on their journey and find their own answers, find their own paths. So it is really important for me to get them out of Helston. Book Two is really about questioning the stories we're told and the assumptions that we make, so it's been really fun to turn a lot of the things that Callie and Co. think they know from Book One on their heads.
Is there anything else that you really want folks to know about this story or these characters?
I'm really excited for kids to really understand that there are different kinds of brave and there are different forms that bravery can take. However you're feeling in the moment, whatever you're capable of right now, that is enough. Even if bravery means sitting still and being quiet, that is just as brave as standing up to your enemies and fighting them off. That's the thing that I really want kids to take away from this book.
Catch Symes-Smith at The Novel Neighbor (7905 Big Bend) for a launch event and conversation with author Catherine Bakewell on November 8.
