Photography by Kevin A. Roberts
Much like the mongoose and the snake, religious leaders and business leaders are often natural enemies, the former emphasizing the spiritual realm and the other measuring what is material. The new Walker Leadership Institute at Eden Theological Seminary dares bring them together, deepening the moral vision and spiritual values of corporate leaders while grounding clergy in group dynamics, tech savvy, and financial planning. The institute’s the first of its kind, and its first director was an obvious choice: The Reverend Steve Lawler is an Episcopal parish priest with an executive MBA, and he’s done consulting for both churches and European hotel chains.
Why do religion and business seem such opposites? Any system privileges winners, and each religious tradition, in its own way, has a preference for caring for the poor, the disenfranchised, the stranger. That critique comes out of the recognition that sometimes the system works well for a few but doesn’t work at all for many others. And it’s made the relationship not a very comfortable one.
Ben and Jerry [of ice cream fame] refused to make more than seven times what their lowest-paid employee made. Why don’t such initiatives catch hold? Because businesses have been financialized to the point where the shareholder doesn’t care if you are building a sustainable business that treats the people who work there as valuable.
What is most soul-killing aspect of the corporate world? Those places where people deny their connection to one another. The heart of this work is right relationship. If your boss doesn’t look at you as the person you are; if the organization ceases to have right relationship; if you don’t have the right relationship to your customers, your market, your city...
Why do people in nonprofits burn out? Maybe if we talked to people sooner, helped them understand that alongside having meaningful conversations with people and being with them at significant times of their lives, they’re also going to need to know about the roof and the boiler, get their message out on social media, manage fundraising, and encourage people to play together better. Clergy of my ilk and era were trained to understand the individual personality, but large-group dynamics? That wasn’t part of my seminary training.
Fundraising often dominates. What effect does that sense of scarcity have? Back when church and culture were most in sync, the idea was that if you have enough money, it means God cares for you, so scarcity can feel like failure. It also means that so many things can’t be done, which starts to weigh on people. But one [lesson from] business is that at periods of great stress, you are forced to focus on the core of what you do.
Aren’t companies shy about religion in the workplace? They certainly can’t ask people about their faith in a job interview anymore. But what’s happening as, sadly, people work a lot more hours, is that some of their deepest friendships are with the people they are working with, and conversations get there.
All the mainline churches are losing members. Does that mean that people aren’t as interested in these issues? In 1958, I could go to church and learn about prayer and the Bible and, subtly, how to vote. Now somebody might be in one church on a Wednesday and doing yoga with a spiritual component and in a book group reading Pema Chödrön. People’s spiritual lives are very rich. The conversations have just shifted.
Do people cock an eyebrow at a priest who’s a business consultant? Part of Anglican Christian expression has been to take seriously the world as we encounter it. I don’t wear a collar when I do those things, but I certainly am not hiding the fact that I’m a priest, and the number of times the conversation goes there is significant. I’ve had some of the most incredible conversations with people in corporate settings.
