Photograph by Kevin A. Roberts
Describing Kim Tucci is not easy. When SLM joined him at the Pasta House to discuss his newest project, Tucci & Fresta’s Trattoria and Bar (scheduled to open in mid-August at press time), Tucci took a phone call from a vendor that, fortunately for us, pretty much did the job: “OK, my friend, you’ve got that $5000 table… Yes, for Tony Bennett… Great guy; he’s doing us a favor for St. Jude's [Children's Research Hospital's 50th Anniversary Kickoff in mid-June]… And he’ll spend the rest of the weekend at your house with you and your new dog...Thank you. You’re the best, I’ll say a prayer for ya.” That’s Kim Tucci. Then he set down his cell phone and talked with us. —George Mahe
When you started The Pasta House, was becoming a regional chain ever even discussed?
It was never part of the plan. When I was with Rich and Charlie’s--but still a broker with A G Edwards—I was offered a small space but still required a partner, which is where Joe Fresta came in. We each needed $5000. I borrowed mine from my mother…who only had $7000.
Then what?
We borrowed $75,000 from Pioneer bank, Joe acted as General Contractor—he was a master carpenter, you know--and we opened the first restaurant for $96,000, paying the remainder out of cash flow. Joe worked the kitchen on Friday and I tended bar, then on Saturday we switched. That $96,000 restaurant would cost a million six today.
How did it grow?
Not long after, four Rich and Charlie’s partners and Joe and myself threw all our assets in a hat to start the Pasta House Co. Eventually, the others were bought out, leaving John [Ferrara, now deceased], Joe, and me.
Most St. Louisans at least know of The Pasta House. What’s something they don’t know?
That we’ve closed about as many restaurants as I’ve opened. Remember Pancho’s? How about Bay’s Barbeque, Fred’s Fried Chicken, Flamingo Cafe, Lido Cafe, Palm Beach Cafe, Charlie Spoon’s, and Brett Hull’s? Shannon’s, we sold.
You rattled those off without taking a breath.
(Laughs). We’re fortunate to continue to be remembered for The Pasta House.
Did anyone ever make you an offer for your company?
Several. Steak & Ale, Golden Corral, Long John Silvers...now they were in a great position to grow the company but weren’t willing to pay much for it. So they opened their own version and it tanked…and they tried to sell it back to us!
How many stores are here and how many are out of town?
Twenty-seven. We opened in Kansas City in 1977 where the main access was by an escalator--that never worked. In Houston, we were in a mall and when you’re up against food courts, places like us don’t stand a chance. A Houlihan’s didn’t even make it at the Galleria. We opened two in California, in the only city that at the time had depreciating property values. Then in Tampa, across the street from cows. Cows. And we had three in the Dominican Republic until that economy went south.
Learning at your own expense…
In retrospect, we should have just focused on developing the Pasta House brand.
In those days, wasn’t dining in restaurants mainly confined to the weekends?
No, but they sure ate later. Back then, people thought nothing of seeing an early movie, then polishing off an order of Alfredo and going home to bed. Now it’s all over by 9 o’clock.
Why is that?
Big TV’s, cable, home entertainment systems. Now people go out early and can come home to that. That and people now are just eating healthier.
What long-term effect did the Atkins craze have on business?
It took us a while to find a good, low-carb pasta. Now we don’t even have it anymore, there’s no call for it. What we do have is a complete gluten-free menu—as well as whole-wheat pasta. I think those will stick around. Clayton will have them as well. We got completely blessed and certified by the Celiac Foundation for the gluten-free items. That was important to us.
Explain how you market Pasta House. It’s unique.
In 1996, we hired a consultant who, bottom line, told us our check average was too low for what we do. And he was right. We were order takers. But he wanted hundreds of thousands of dollars to to implement a suggestive selling program and I was embarrassed.
Why?
Because I have a graduate degree in communications and I should have been doing that kind of thing all along. I developed a series of classes on suggestive selling aimed at increasing each server’s sales by 15%, involving five add-ons: cheesy garlic bread, appetizers, desserts, glasses/bottles of wine, and specialty drinks.
Did it work?
It works as long as I conduct the classes. It’s something that has to be reinforced all the time.
Do you incentivize the servers to use the system?
Their increased tips are their incentive. I compare their station to having their own little restaurant and how much money they make is up to them and if they do it right, they’ll make more than I do. And some do.
What’s the easiest sell?
This is beautiful. After the order is taken, when the server is walking away, he says matter-of-factly, “You know, there’s also a special on hot, cheesy garlic bread, it’s only $1.99, half-price. How ‘bout an order?” Or you mention a glass of your special glass of wine the moment the steaming hot entrees hit the table.
Last time at a Pasta House, I got the garlic bread pitch…and took the bait.
Just that extra $2 a table—that one item—can be huge for everybody up and down the line.
How’s your turnover?
Look at Jim over there. I hired him when he was 60…and he’s a lot older than that now. Marie is 94; she’s my daytime hostess. Phenomenal. Plus, she goes to every Blues game and every Rams game. Romi over there? Nineteen years as a busboy. That’s his thing. He’s the best.
Why is that guy out of uniform?
It’s Dress Down Friday. For a $5 contribution, a server can wear what they want. The money goes to Caring & Sharing Program, a foundation I started. Same with those big, red dinosaurs out front… all the money in there goes to the foundation, too.
How has The Pasta House evolved over the years?
Nobody can do what we do. We serve 40 pastas here. None of the other guys do that. I work on the menu morning, noon, and night. And I went on the radio to promote it. That was the key.
Not television.
No, too fragmented. No value there anymore. Radio was the key. Three blitzes a year, 600 - 60 second spots per blitz, run on the top 5 radio stations in town.
Your corporate office is near The Hill. Has that soda lost its fizz?
No, but several things are true. People don’t dress for dinner any more. Even Vince [Bommarito] relaxed his rules. People in Beverly Hills are dining in jeans and a nice sport shirt. And some need to reinvent themselves. You gotta do it...add new things. They need to be more like [Cafe] Napoli.
How has Italian changed over the years?
More experimentation, more pushing…there’s a place in town now that serves eggplant skins. Not sure if that’s crazy or it’s genius. And I don’t understand all the homemade pasta. I prefer Barilla. Everybody should use Barilla. It’s phenomenal.
How’s Pasta House Pronto doing? There are only two stores.
I can’t expand it. The numbers are good if it was a mom and pop, at least $100,000 a year, but not if you have to have several managers run it as we do.
How will you position Tucci and Fresta’s? You know the first comparison made will be to Pasta House.
There will be no item crossover from Pasta House 10 pastas instead of 40, including one with a derivation of my Diavolo sauce—the sauce from hell that tastes like heaven, like the one I do for the cooking schools—and a salad that’s tossed tableside with a sweet Italian dressing.
So more proteins…
Three veal dishes, several seafood and chicken items, lamb chops, and four steaks, including a 22-ounce, bone-in rib eye, all priced like Gitto’s and Napoli.
Any tableside entrees?
Not initially, although we could build to that.
I’m guessing you may have more tables than the old Portabella?
There may be fewer since we’re expanding the bar.. We may put a piano bar in there…there’s no entertainment in Clayton.
Any must have items on the new menu?
A version of Shrimp Garanzini—with white wine, lemon, butter, mushrooms, and breaded shrimp—but it’s tossed into OBG [oil, butter, garlic] pasta. Man, that sounds good right now. You wanna have that for lunch?
What’s your advice for someone looking to get into the biz?
Find a place that just closed. I know a guy who got in for $1 more a foot than the guys who had just vacated, but with that came all the equipment. Another forty grand to spiff up the joint and they were in business. Oh, and there was a chain here six months who wanted to get the hell out and walked away from a $1.7 million buildout. It was yours for the lease. That’s how you get in.
Other ideas or concepts dying to get out of your head?
I have a chili concept that I really want to do, similar to Ben’s Chili Bowl in Washington, DC. Just trying to find the spot…
